Date Posted:Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:44 amSubject:Yeh yeh...
Simple solution, sure. (And effective.)
So in other words, samurais -have- to use guns, if they ever hope to defeat a melee adept, even if they're a melee focused samurai? That seems a little lame.
-----signature----- Therefor, your mechanism of material better be sickly, or let your lead spread incredibly quickly.
As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with Vile. Counterstrike makes everyone but Adepts obsolete when it comes to melee combat. I love my magical characters and rarely play non-adept samurai, but still.
The reason I was given that Weapon Foci weren't imped was that they would make Adepts unbeatable in melee. The Counterstrike power goes far beyond on occasional force 1 foci sword, and is pretty cheap too.
I love the fact that Che is implimenting new stuff, but playtesting has proven this power unbalancing. Maybe if it was limited to perhaps 2 levels... But I'm still not sure.
An additional problem I see in this is the guns versus melee battle. Like cyber samurai most adepts are packing heavily in the armor area. Firearms are countered by the ballistic rating of your armor which is normally higher while any kinda of melee attack goes off of impact. Granted the difference is usually moot but when a melee adept has easier rolls cause of the lower armor rating and can do as much if not more damage then a samurai with an assault rifle it gives them a very big advantage. Add in the fact that once they close to melee range with the sammie, the disadvantage to the sammie gets even worse because trying to shoot someone you are in melee range with makes it harder. I know cannon says the minimum range for firearms is 0 meters to whatever depending upon the type but I've seen in the mud when I was in melee range with someone my ability to shoot them got worse. Normally firearms combat is most effective between five to twenty meters which is out of the reach of melee weapons. Don't quote me on that though as that is just a guess. Basically unless the sammie can drop the adept with his/her guns before the adept closes to melee range he/she is gonna get owned. Yes I know APDS halves the effective ballistic rating of armor but with as hard as APDS is to aquire, at least for me anyway, a sammie has to use other types of ammunition. And lastly, as most melee adepts seem to favor weapons with very good reach this adds to the disadvantage of the samurai unless he/she has a weapon with good reach. All in all, I concur that the counterstrike power should be nixed or APDS should be easier to get so the sammies can have a little more help when fighting melee adepts.
-----signature----- Insanity is a state of mind, I'm merely the governer.
game balance? you all know you are playing shadowrun right? adepts are just plain better than mundanes, much as cybered people are better than unmodified mundanes. reality isn't balanced and neither is shadowrun. it is unwise to bring a knife to a gunfight. knives never beat swords in an open fight. adepts defeat mundanes.
I know cannon says the minimum range for firearms is 0 meters to whatever depending upon the type but I've seen in the mud when I was in melee range with someone my ability to shoot them got worse.
The reason why I enjoyed the concept of Shadowrun to start with, is the flexibility it allowed archetypes, to the extent where they were not -forced- into a particular path.
What you're saying now is just that: You -have- to do this, or else.
A samurai, whose twice as fast, twice as strong, and twice as sturdy as a melee adept, -must- to use a gun to defeat him?
You and I both know that is bullshit, come on.
Lets say you have a strapped up melee samurai, lets toss some stats out there for an example.
First round starts:
Initiative: Samurai:
15 + 1 2 1 = 19 (I actually just rolled these shitty rolls ingame with the dice roller..)
Initiative: Adept:
8 + 5 = 13
Lets say they're fighting in fully offensive stances:
Samurai rolls 8 dice:
ou rolls 8 dice against a TN of 4 and scores: 3 1 5 2 4 1 10 5. 4 successes.
Adept rolls 12 dice (for the simple fact he will never lose an initiative contest, the slower the melee adept, the better):
You rolls 12 dice against a TN of 4 and scores: 5 9 1 1 2 2 5 3 4 1 11 11. 6 successes.
The adept wins, hands down, about 95% of the time.
Keep in mind, the samurai is more skilled, stronger, and faster.
How is it even conceivable that the samurai loses?
I'd go as far to say this ability is a melee based 'Improved ability' power, which, last I heard, was too powerful to be used in the MUD without it unbalancing things further. Unlike 'Improved ability', this power works with all melee weapons, as opposed to the 'improved ability' power working with a single skill.
I'll go even further and say: Counterstrike makes 'Improved ability' look like a livable alternative. (Which it isn't... which is exactly my point.)
-----signature----- Therefor, your mechanism of material better be sickly, or let your lead spread incredibly quickly.
I know cannon says the minimum range for firearms is 0 meters to whatever depending upon the type but I've seen in the mud when I was in melee range with someone my ability to shoot them got worse.
All in your head
Okay..lemme rephrase that. It has seemed like it was harder to shoot someone who was withim melee range. Perhaps I just get bad rolls or they get good ones. Either way it went I got my rear handed to me is the point I'm trying to make.
-----signature----- Insanity is a state of mind, I'm merely the governer.
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